Exactly

Absolutely. Couldn’t understand this guilt trip.

Its just a TV show its not real

I'm surprised he didn't fight back with that reasoning. They are too agreeable personalities and they got ripped off big time. I would never in this lifetime offer 30% of equity from my own business. He should have stuck with 7.5% max 15% if theres no deal ba-bye.

@noodles6669 good point there 👌

This is not bitcoin. It was not exploded. Client needed help to survive. Bitcoin is not begging you for money. Supply and demand. Here the demand was low.

She wouldn’t understand she was gifted her business in the first instance.

Exactly .

@PollMie Maybe he did. Who knows what ends up on the cutting room floor.

What you don’t realize is they inquired about what has changed since they invested, and it hasn’t improved much and they’re still only running with 7 k a month in cash…

Agree

Exactly! They are a bunch of bullies. I onyl now watch the pitch and product ideas ans skip past the egomaniacal dragons. They strong arm everyone how can you be in business with someone where they think they are almight god. Esp peter jones, yes he's smart and knows how to cut a deal but that isn't someone you want working against you. He's always going to try and gain the upper hand. Cant stand his smug face. I've never bought a stitch at his fancy overpriced overhyped stores either.

Insulted??? and they are in business LOL.... silly men

could just be added in deliberately to make the show spicy

@Alphie exactly it's not so easy to sell it on your own

@ells101 and did you know... the 'elevator' is not actually an elevator at all.

@黃健毅 we found the plant

2 million revenue isn’t good for a company like this

@David Doran Bunch of scammers

Debra just makes it all so complicated

@koiun dwrru I don't know why you replied this on a comment about Deborah, but I appreciated it none the less! I was thinking about that when they went back, and was wondering why his partner didn't sign. It also seems to be a case of developed hearing loss due to age, disease or accident since he can also speak pretty well

He didn't need the sign writer when talking to his partner because he can lip read him better, as he has for years. The sharks would have been harder.

@Alfons Grizzly You're spot on Alfons. This isn't a case where they made this deal one day, then rushed the process to say 'now' the company is magically out of the woods. They've had X amount of time where the company has done done well, and as you say, proven the model. In being fair to the dragons, they simply missed a huge upside swing and that's the narrative they cling to here. They can't pretend 'not to understand' why this has happened because they've seen it happen several times and have been part of that upswing. This is just a case where the business is coming to them after the upswing and turnaround and the dragons realize they've missed a chance to get a great discount. I honestly feel like they bring it up here in hopes of negotiating down the price to see how much they can get by feigning offense. Entrepreneur: "Well they got this deal because we were at a desperate period, unproven, and they really helped us through a tight spot. They made a noticeable difference to our business and so they got that discount." Potential Dragon reply: "Oh, and you don't think I'll make a noticeable difference to your business? Do you not think I'll bring remarkable value to your business? Am I not worth the same discount? If I'm going to come on board and make this contribution to you, shouldn't I be paid the same way these other people were, whom you value so highly?" The 'realistic' answer is that these other investors were in the right place at the right time to take a big risk and get a sweetheart deal because of it. The dragons can pitch this narrative in a way that if the entrepreneur is very 'honest' with them, the entrepreneur can be trapped in however they answer. It's a lot like the word game the dragons play when it comes to valuation: - If a company is struggling, the dragon will say: "I'll buy in, but this is what it's worth today. I can't pay more than that." And when the entrepreneur replies: "Well my valuation is based on what we can do if you join us." the dragon says: "I can't pay today what it'll be worth in a year's time after I've been involved. This is what it's worth today, this is what I'll pay, and then together we can build it." - If a company is thriving, and the entrepreneur is justified in giving a little percentage for a lot of money because the business is doing so well, the dragon will often say: "Yes well I'm valuing my time. When I get involved, I'm going to make this very big for you. So this is the percentage I want." When the company is doing very well, the entrepreneur is asking for a reasonable price to the day's value, the dragon is quick to point out that: "When I get involved, we'll be making this much bigger, that's why I can ask for more." but when the business is struggling and not doing all that well, the dragon is the first to say: "Yes, when I get involved maybe we'll make it big, but that's my upside for taking the risk. You can't ask me to pay more today than it's worth just because of the potential my involvement adds." Now to be clear... I don't blame the dragons for this. This is shrewd business, and very often, the art of getting a great deal is knowing how to negotiate a narrative and see how you can get the best bargain. Sometimes that means selling the future hard to justify why you want more now. Other times that means 'blocking' that move from the other person, and answering: "You can't ask me to pay for the future today." and very often the dragons make these moves just to see how the entrepreneur will react. Will they become anxious? Awkward? Will they feel 'bullied' or even worse, made to feel like they're insulting the dragons when it's not their intent (but the way the dragons word a question makes any answer hard to navigate because it can 'sound' bad hehe). I do so love watching Dragons Den. :D

@J Bezanson not only healtheier place but it was a proven bussiness model... thats the big diefference. Why he did not tell them that he did not sell the shares cheap YESTERDAY.... but it was several years ago when nobody knew how the bussiness will do

@Hamza Absolutely.

Not always

@Nashy119 huh?

@Torite Thoraiys Cannot be done like that in this instance. The appealing thing, and the core thing really, is that the business pays for items immediately THEN they sell it, when they sell it. So you basically have to give salaries for enough people to not have any delays even when the business is slow. They are probably bleeding money on salaries and not have enough left to invest in further growth. Hence the DD appearance. Increasing the volume would extract much higher value from the employees. Whether any of it is realistic or not, I don't really care.

I think 20£ is the profit after all the labour involved

Just have the seller hold the item until the sale is made. The seller sends you the items sold. The buyer sends you money. You take your escrow fees, shipping and processing fees out. The rest after taxes goes back to the seller. Easy, convenient, and safe. Could even have a verification service where once the escrow receives the items they send 5-6 photos for transaction approval. Keeps people from being ripped off with damaged products photographed well.

Discussing how it can scale just makes one investor weaker in front of an other u guess

There probably was, these pitches can last hours we only see the chopped and screwed versions

apples and oranges

@Nothing Better To Do It's the most prominent in the UK by far

@1 year ago yes, because the inflation in the costs of housing is only happening in London? 🙄

@C I guess that’s the average but you can get houses under 500k

@GothicGolem29 Average in Central London is £870k and average in London is 510k, but I mean id you want an actual house instead of just an apartment it is a lot more.

@Akinlabi Omo-Oso Ok fair point .

Sounds like peter jones🤣😂

Ahahahahahahah😂😂😂

Almost every episode.. Peter Jones would say that

Because you want Tesla 🤣

Yup, like Deborah pointed out, the company's financials haven't changed much since the previous funding round (weak cash flow), so the dragons feel like they're being ripped off if investing at 20x that valuation.

Most of these never go ahead due to due diligence, or the people finding alternative investors. No reason not to explain the other investors, if you stand in front of the trying to pitch for investment but refuse to mention other major investors, would you go ahead?

I'm very sure the Dragons will eventually find out before they put pen to paper..

@Isaiah Pero Nothing.🤔

50,000 pounds of what?

Interesting point. But if he hadn’t mentioned it, due diligence would’ve uncovered the detail and likely then not allowing the deal to go through

This comment

Clickbait

@Brandon B nothing gets past you

😂😂

@Asif really? 'Decades' would indicate multiple- so 2+. Given this episode itself is only 10 years old im unsure how its been posted on TRshow for atleast twice that length according to you.

Ikr 🙄💜

@Logan Bombard Brilliant 😂

For me it was always 7 AM hahaha

@Alan Hope they come, btw, from having sold them before buying them from the seller. while second hand shops don't make a lot of money, someone looking for a very, very specific item will pay a heinous amount of money for it. and being delivered an item in used condition for 30% of the cost of a new item makes him 10%

@Alan Hope i wondered the same thing i was like “clearly i was too busy eating and missed something” but i ran it back and i’m still lost lol

They cant rip him off & they hate it

@Sh3tposts GamerTime I'm still having trouble getting my head around the business model. So he buys all that stuff at a fraction of the price as calculated by hisown software (based on what, you may ask). What happens to the books/games etc after that? Those products are notoriously dirt cheap second-hand, so how does he recoup any money at all? HIs business is no more lucrative than a market stall or a jumble sale as far as I can see. Where are these fantastic profits supposed to come from?

@Juliusz its still insulting, the company isnt worth 3.5x more than it was. Its either naivety or greed and both arent good for the investors.

Boris managed it !

@Ghostchanter yeah this was my thought, it was way darker over there. Honestly I think they must do their real chat then do one for camera clips

@Michael Zahra Finds out all her secrets anytime he goes down on a girl..

@Ghostchanter i was about to ask the same question

@Ghostchanter yeah wtf was that about haha

They're not called sharks..

Or because they didn't have that much money 🤣

The audacity of them to be offended though, the early shares would have been sold at prices that represented the revenue at the time. Imagine being offended today about the prices of amazon or apple shares because you could have bought them 20 years ago for cheaper 😂 if these are the people who represent successful business in England and don’t understand shares and valuations then god help us all.

You must be joking - turnover 1 million, profit 35,000 and 9,000 in the bank - serious cash and profitability problems in this business -trying to sell 7.5% for 250,000 is a joke - I'm out was the right call.

Well it's not the Teddy Bear's Den. You should expect a dragon to be ruthless and underhanded.

@Freeza Sama not most some do

@Freeza Sama Companies going through rapid growth often lack net profir. 660k projected turnover. And the fact they rejected and the company is worth hundreds of millions shows this.

You know that most entrepreneurs never intend to get a deal they just want to be advertised on tv for free Peter stated this in an interview about dragons den

Exactly.

They didn't invest 50k each, they invested 50k in total.

According to their trust pilot they haven't been accepting trades for months due to "essential maintenance"

Apparently the deal fell through after the show

Not how it works - it's not a company trading on the stock market so effectively it's not for sale

He's selling 30% of the whole business, not just of his stake.

I haven't watched the video yet, but I can immediately tell you your calculation is probably incorrect. It's not 70% of 70%, his share is 70%/130%=53.8%.

Send me a copy of the most important part of the day

Or maybe a wide range of services and solutions to the aforementioned comestibles

Anyone got a tissue?

Wow, the was a book barn that went under in Bristol paintwork, I got my self a few coding books, however I have used zapper, and got £50 quit for what I would have given to charity. I like car boot sales, and this is just that really...

🧢

Yeah it does, i’m sure the company was worth 10 dollars at some point. And probably grew 10.000% within a few weeks.

Absolutely spot on. It genuinely stuns me that these 3 “business people” didn’t seem to grasp this logic 😂😂😂

D C... very astute. The dragons get to leverage a situation where if he answers a question brazenly or boldly, he comes off as bullying or arrogant. Example: Entrepreneur: "Well they got this deal because we were at a desperate period, unproven, and they really helped us through a tight spot. They made a noticeable difference to our business and so they got that discount." Potential Dragon reply: "Oh, and you don't think I'll make a noticeable difference to your business? Do you not think I'll bring remarkable value to your business? Am I not worth the same discount? If I'm going to come on board and make this contribution to you, shouldn't I be paid the same way these other people were, whom you value so highly?" The 'realistic' answer is that these other investors were in the right place at the right time to take a big risk and get a sweetheart deal because of it. The dragons can pitch this narrative in a way that if the entrepreneur is very 'honest' with them, the entrepreneur can be trapped in however they answer. It's a lot like the word game the dragons play when it comes to valuation: - If a company is struggling, the dragon will say: "I'll buy in, but this is what it's worth today. I can't pay more than that." And when the entrepreneur replies: "Well my valuation is based on what we can do if you join us." the dragon says: "I can't pay today what it'll be worth in a year's time after I've been involved. This is what it's worth today, this is what I'll pay, and then together we can build it." - If a company is thriving, and the entrepreneur is justified in giving a little percentage for a lot of money because the business is doing so well, the dragon will often say: "Yes well I'm valuing my time. When I get involved, I'm going to make this very big for you. So this is the percentage I want." When the company is doing very well, the entrepreneur is asking for a reasonable price to the day's value, the dragon is quick to point out that: "When I get involved, we'll be making this much bigger, that's why I can ask for more." but when the business is struggling and not doing all that well, the dragon is the first to say: "Yes, when I get involved maybe we'll make it big, but that's my upside for taking the risk. You can't ask me to pay more today than it's worth just because of the potential my involvement adds." Now to be clear... I don't blame the dragons for this. This is shrewd business, and very often, the art of getting a great deal is knowing how to negotiate a narrative and see how you can get the best bargain. Sometimes that means selling the future hard to justify why you want more now. Other times that means 'blocking' that move from the other person, and answering: "You can't ask me to pay for the future today." and very often the dragons make these moves just to see how the entrepreneur will react. Will they become anxious? Awkward? Will they feel 'bullied' or even worse, made to feel like they're insulting the dragons when it's not their intent (but the way the dragons word a question makes any answer hard to navigate because it can 'sound' bad hehe). I do so love watching Dragons Den. :D

year 2 they 8x turnover but 20x net profit... yea right

@Fernando Donoso I hate these types of rip off merchants. I'm glad none of them invested. 😌

they pay you 1p per game and you need to sell at least 5 pounds or the app won't work, that company is a joke

Egos …!

Hello David. So I do believe I get where you're coming from with the comment here. Very often the dragons can go over the top with their replies. This being said, I think the show would be extremely boring if they just said they were 'out' and moved on. Entertainment value aside... one of the things that I love about this show is the business discussion around it. When a dragon goes out they can go out for any number of reasons, and often times those reasons can seem hypocritical. - In one pitch, they may say: "It's a crazy idea, I can't justify getting involved. I'm out." - In a similar pitch, they may say: "It's a crazy idea, but you know what, I'm going to take a punt." - In another idea they may say: "I'm not an ideal partner for you. The dragon to my left (or right) is in this space, so I'm out. - In a similar pitch they may say: "I'm not an ideal partner for you, so I'm going to offer you a better deal because I 'love' this idea and think I can still be 'some' help and would like to be a part of it." - In a 3rd instance, one of the contrasts you'll hear is: "You're asking for too little money, it won't be enough to do what you want to do, so I'm out." - In a similar pitch, they may say: "You've asked for a lot of money. If you'd asked for less, I could say 'I'll take a punt!' but at that price... it's just too much for me to get involved. I'll never see a return, so I'm out." - And sometimes you'll hear: "I like it... and I'm on the fence, honestly. But you know what, on this one... I'm going to be out. And you know what-? I could be missing the biggest thing. I might very well regret this'." - And of course the mirror: "I could go either way on this. I've been weighing the pros and cons. You've definitely got something here, but the question is can you execute on it and make it something. I'm going to make you an offer." The dragons have a very interesting situation in that not all great pitches have to receive money. They don't all get 'entitled' to investment. Someone who makes a good pitch might not get investment because a dragon is just in the mindset of 'great' pitches that day. You could have a business that is doing well, come through a hard time, turns the tide and is now becoming profitable. It's a great story. But the dragon may not invest in you because they believe the pitch after you has a chance of being something 'better'. Someone making tonnes of profit... etc. We see all these pitches and we root for the entrepreneurs thinking if they do well enough, we don't understand why they don't get investment. From a dragon's point of view. the good could be the enemy of great. A decent entrepreneur who's struggling but doing their best may not get an offer simply because the dragon believes strongly that later in the day they have good odds of hearing a pitch that is much better than this one. Now dragons can't know what the future pitches will be, but as Kevin O'Leary says: "I can make great offers for fantastic deals, because if you don't take it, someone else will walk in that door behind you and they will take it. They'll take my money and become successful." etc.

They have such fragile egos. Peter and Deborah are the worst for it.

@C R cheers bro, didn’t spot the typo! Have a great weekend

The term is to take something "personally" not "purposely".

Isn't it better to sell them directly to some bookshop? Bet you would get more for it although you would have to physically carry the book and do some bargaining. That's how we losers do it in India lol

That was i was deliberating too!!Good point, but it was too high maybe 125k more befitting lol.. Don’t think they gave him enough credit though for all he had achieved.But turn over vanity profit sanity lol😚

@Kevin Johnson Nope just helps been actually close to the person.

@Kevin Johnson distance away from dragons bright lights ect....

@Kevin Johnson could be more than one person speaking.. the guy is intelligent but I doubt he can lip read multiple mouths from People sat at different positions..

@Kevin Johnson 😘

@Rikard Andersson you make lip reading sound like rocket science

Really?! At 4:14, evidently he doesn't even know the difference between brought and bought.

Makes a change

The devil is in the detail, that's why we are watching them make the deals...

same with me

now i cannot unsee it :D well spotted!

You sure?? That's the crap the guy is trying to OFFLOAD hahaha

Apparently the deal fell through but the company is doing well

‘😮😮😮’ 😂😂

😂😂😂

🤯😲😂🤣🤣

That's how you do in sign language. :-)

His facial expressions match Theo’s tone. I wouldn’t be surprised there is a correlation.

@Schmich and he’ll be very familiar with his speech patterns.

Many can read lips and he might be hearing impaired instead of fully deaf.